sig rattler vs springfield saint

Awesome pistol by the way. However, on the PDW, the Reptilia grip and the provided 20-round magazines look perfect. With the provided 20-round Magpul PMAG in place, the PDW weighs 5 pounds, 10 ounces. The heavier 120- to 125-grain loads performed similarly. Modern PDWs are often designed to be able to penetrate soft body armor with armor-piercing (AP) ammo. Cookie Notice Not only did the 77-grainers shoot straight, this uber-short-barreled pistol grouped between 2.5 and 4 MOA with everything I gave it. Given the test barrel used to produce this data was likely 20 inches or more in length, we think this was still somewhat out of spec. As to suppressibility, few centerfire rifle cartridges do it better. SIG's Rattler pistols come with a 5.5 inch PDW threaded barrel and removable tool-less M-Lok Handguard. This may be true for some configurations, in certain environments, with particular loads. I installed it on an AR carbine but ended up taking it off, because while it felt good in my hand, it just didnt look right to my eye. Personally Id avoid Springfield due to personal issues with the company and their politics. MSRP: $949; ruger.com. Furthermore, the gun is outfitted with Wilsons proprietary handguard, a fairly light affair that is M-Lok compatible and features a 4-inch accessory rail, as well as quick-detachment sling mounts. Definitely looking at the Sig, but having a hard time forking over that much money. Rather, the AR-15 is an ideal defensive weapon necessary for the legally armed defense-conscious American. With the brace collapsed, it is just 18.75 inches long. In fact, it wasnt that long ago that SIG was in a similar position. Rattler was built to be fired primarily unsuppressed, with the ability to be suppressed, if needed. Jones .300 Whisper wildcat cartridge and developed the SAAMI-standardized 300 Blackout. Two additional components from Bravo Company contributed to the Saints distinctive lines. MSRP: $2,000; wilsoncombat.com. With the specs they listed, the barrel couldnt be much more than 6 inches, and it had to havethe ability to swap between the specd .300 BLK top end and one chambered in 5.56. I would deploy this as a dedicated entry rifle in a heartbeat. The target to our right showed three A-zone hits and a stray shot in the D-zone, furthest from center. At that time the price on that gun was $1,800. SAINT ARs come in a range of sizes and calibers. It's perfect for sporting or home defense with high reliability and some furniture and trigger upgrades that set it apart from other budget AR-15s. Spring loaded at rest, there was a platform on each side that released the sight instantaneously to its vertical position. Targets left and center showed four A-zone hits, but one shot on each target was outside of the A-zone. I wrote SilencerCo another letter, under a different email. In the confusion the shot was released off line or as one might say, out of time. SIG Sauer MCX-SPEAR: Civilian Version of XM7 Rifle Arrives! Now with the updated SAINT Edge PDW goes further, by going smaller. At the rear of the receiver, youll see the Maxim Defense SCW brace. In addition to all that, for the features you get on this pistol, it is priced very reasonably. | When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. Maybe they will give me some clarity. .224 Valkyrie Small Precision Rifle Cartridge: Everything You Need to Know, Buyer Beware: Buying 'Bargain' Guns Can Be Risky. Now more are jumping into the AR-15 market. A late adopter of the AR, Springfield Armory has since risen to the top of mid-priced configurations. Get 12 Issues a year of the country's best firearms writing. This website contains many older reviews. The result was more shots fired within the allotted time limit. Still love Springfield but im sour on that line. (Most folks will never see such high velocities out of the 5.5 inch barrel.) Anything beyond 100 yards and that starts to fade. Springfield Armory Saint Victor. Like all things in life, this entails tradeoffs. Now, we all know stripped down versions just aren't going to cut it, so after adding a Trijicon MRO, SIG SRD 762 QD can, a Magpul vertical grip, a Parker Mountain Machines BCD, and don't forget a fully-loaded magazine of 220 grain subsonic rounds, we have ourselves a stout 9.4 pound setup. In 2017, the U.S. Special Operations Command (SOCOM) issued a Request For Information, basically asking someone to design a .300 Blackout PDW top end for them that a soldier could slap onto a standard M4 lower to create a concealable AR-based PDW. With a 9.6-inch barrel, M-LOK BCM Gunfighter handguard, forward handstop and more, that SAINT served as a solid introductory model. Sig offers several variants, including pistols with stabilizing braces. Choice of ammunition for AR-15s used to be limited by the 1:9-inch-twist barrel. Detent at the safety was heavy and secure without any rough edges. Our days at the range were somewhat windy, so waiting for a lull before releasing a shot was standard procedure. For a company many people thought was years late to the AR party, Springfield Armory has done an amazing job in seizing a substantial percentage of the AR-15 marketplace, and theyre not slowing down. The CMMG Mk4T was the tale of two rifles. The abbreviated configurations of Americas favorite firearm are practically perfect in every way. Caleb Giddings, Marketing Manager at Taurus, introduces the all-new TaurusTX 22 Compact. The Premier Body Armor Vertx Collaboration Adds More Options, VIDEO: Police Snipers Train for Super Bowl LIV With .50 BMG, More, The MAUSER 98 125th Anniversary Limited-Edition Series, FIRST LOOK: Glock Just Very Quietly Unveiled the New Glock 47 Pistol, Police Sidearms: The Handguns of Americas 10 Largest Departments, Black Creek Labs MRX Bronco, TRX Bronco Hunter Rifles, CMP Surplus Ammo Coming Soon in M2 Ball, .30 Carbine & More, Active School Shooter Training: 14 Key Points to Consider, 5 Strategies For Effectively Completing a Tactical Reload, FIRST LOOK: Colt CBX Precision Chassis Rifle Ready to Compete & Win, 5 Common Myths on How to Survive a Gunfight, Understanding Stand Your Ground Laws and Castle Doctrine, Long-Distance Shooting: 5 Must-Know Tips For Spotters & Shooters, IMPACT Experience Events Redefine Your Long-Range Shooting Limits, Sniper Skills: Taking Your Shooting Precision to the Next Level. Extraordinary accuracy. The barrel is 16 inches and features a 1:8 twist. Essentially it boils down to performance and suppressibility. The visual theme of the Saint was that it looks to be one piece instead of an upper and lower, or as some say, it looks monolithic. As for Springfields PDW, it is an AR, so it has familiar controls. A forum community dedicated to SIG Sauer Pistols and SIG Sauer Rifles owners and enthusiasts. Even knowing how short the barrel is, I was surprised at the low velocities nothing produced over 2,000 feet per second (fps), not even Black Hills hot 50-grain Optimized TSX load. At first glance, the $1250 SIG Sauer RM400 Classic looked like a standard model with only a flat-top rail above the receiver to break up the profile. and our They are going to err on the side of caution by telling you they are incompatible but in this situation they are right. Would I want to get shot with it at 200 yards? The Rattler has a one in five twist rate. I was a big Sig fan , After buyig the 1st Tread M400 , I had the Tread 5.56 Pistol on my list , then the Tread 716I - .308 AR-10 , But when I went to buy the tread M400 5.56 pistol I looked at the Springfield Saint 300 Black out . With the desire for a more up-to-date AR-15, we went shopping and found that we didnt have to break the bank just get comfortable within a price range of about $900 to $1250 dollars. The only complaint is the 300 Blackouts A2 flash hider. The companys thinking must be a suppressor is going on there anyway, so cut costs with the standard muzzle device. This video does make me feel better about Springfield. The Tread was $799.00 and the Saint was $849.00. SAAMI Accepts 30 Super Carry As New Standardized Cartridge, SHOT 2022: Federal Premium Announces 30 Super Carry Cartridge. Given the paperwork and money you spent on the can, is it worth testing twist-rates theories yourself? The gas block is pinned in place. To test this, I fed the PDW Black Hills 77-grain TMK load in addition to more traditional offerings. Because I knew the velocity would be lacking, most of my chronographing was done with 5.56 NATO ammo, which runs a bit hotter. All Rights Reserved. and the had the CZ Parrot checkmate 9mm $3,299. Love my M400 Tread and if I was in the market for another AR Rifle, i'd absolutely consider it. But there is hope for me after seeing the new SnakeBite Tread 5.56 . Additionally, the gun has one of the best brace systems going, a fast-deploying affair that cuts the size of the firearm nearly in half when folded in. check out the. Maybe i'll sell the .308 if they ship me a new replacement and get an M1A instead, but i'm not exactly dying to give that money right back to them after this fiasco. I mainly shoot at an indoor range. It boasts the nice extra of a forward flash diverter, clearing the line of sight for fast follow-ups and target acquisition. http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/201for-carve-out/, http://forum.pafoa.org/showthread.php?t=305685, https://www.nraila.org/articles/2017cal-gun-dealer, http://www.upi.com/Archives/1989/03/5406606027600/, St. Gabriel Possenti Patron Saint of Handgunners, If this is your first visit, be sure to I plan on using it primarily for hunting and some plinking. So, I spread the wealth equally. Instead, its plenty accurate for its intended purpose. The BCM Gunfighter buttstock offered sleek lines with no protruding levers that might catch on gear, such as the straps of a chest rig. Nice Sig collection BET7, And I also play the field , I really like my Black Rain Ordnance 5.56 , I would like to add a couple more Black Rains to my collection . Concerning these small-but-potent arms, they're pretty dang slick in 5.56 NATO, but sing when chambered 300 Blackout. Meet the all-new Taurus Judge Executive Grade, a revolver featuring a hand-polished satin finish, presentation-grade wood grips, a brass rod front sight and an exceptional hand-tuned trigger. The A-zone measured 11 inches tall and about 5.75 inches wide. It was very easy to move quickly, and the gun always felt light. One of the ways that we suspect the suggested retail price of the Saint was held down was by utilizing an A1 front-sight assembly. I would really like to hear from you guys who have had access and range time with these MSR's. Before we get there, lets look at the concept of the personal-defense weapon (PDW). Magazine release from the left side was a little easier if pressure was applied more toward the rearward edge than over the center of the button. We really liked the handguard. Surrounding the barrel and piston system is a 5-inch, free-floating M-LOK handguard. To find out if any of the above added up to improved performance, we tested for accuracy from the 100-yard line at American Shooting Centers in Houston. I have a lot of love for my BCM because it was my first full build but the Saint is a great rifle off the shelf. A Magpul dual split aperture flip-up rear sight was attached to the top rail that ran the length of the receiver. Barrel-twist rate was 1:7, and breaking down the rifle revealed a reduced-mass hammer. With most loads, a 9-inch barrel is enough bore for a complete powder burn. For our distance work we mounted a SIG Sauer 3-12x42mm Tango4 optical scope ($900 MSRP). Barnes 110-grain TAC-TX ammo was the most consistently accurate of the supersonics, with a group right at 0.75 inches. I Have the 1st Sig's M400 Tread and it's a nice gun , It shoots great and built very good . Unless otherwise noted, these reviews carry the guns prices at the time of the original review. Honey badger .300bo 5. That's a $1000 dollar rifle and a good deal at that but you're getting gouged pretty bad at 1400. As long as you are not expecting rifle-length performance out of a barrel this short, you wont be disappointed. What sets the SIG MCX Rattler apart? Higher-level shooters might prefer a hard break without overture, but its certainly not a distraction that will inhibit the experienced shooter. Suppressed, the Rattler ran everything on the supersonic setting (less gas). Many contend a 1:8 twist will stabilize heavy subsonic bullets. To activate it from either side of the gun, I mounted its tape switch on the Rattlers Picatinny top rail. Support gear used:***Splatterburst Targetshttps://amzn.to/2Kera7g***Peltor Sport RangeGuard Hearing Protectionhttps://amzn.to/2LsLUbXThe Springfield XDM Elit. For targeting, I installed a set of Daniel Defenses fixed sights, as well as a Sig Sauer ROMEO3 reflex sight in a tall mount for co-witnessing. Not as expensive as their Carbon Fiber wrapped Barrel model, but probably my most costly AR15 to date. The only difference are the built in QD mounts to any other lower. Also visible with the top end hinged away was the Accu-Tite tension system consisting of a synthetic non-marring screw that mated flush beneath the bottom of the connecting lug. The AR pistol is a platform of many uses. I just wish the right-side lever was shorter so it wouldnt bump my trigger finger when flipping it off. Sig Sauer. And yet, accuracy from the bench was on par with our other test carbines. If I did buy another SIG rifle it would be the 716 to replace my Victor .308 (most know my issues with this gun). After our run with the Saint, all three targets showed five hits. However, the range in resistance spanned from about 6.75 pounds to almost 8.0 pounds. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. Between the friendly trigger, which our shooter was able to stage as we moved from target to target, and some adrenalin, we had added one full circuit, even if all 15 shots werent perfect. So goes the AR-556 line of ARs. Written and photographed by Roger Eckstine, using evaluations from Gun Tests team testers. Barrel is Chromemoly Vanadium, Melonite coated inside and out, 1:8 twist and a NATO chamber. This removed any slack between the upper and lower ends of the rifle. Takedown revealed nickel-boron coating of hammer and trigger components, plus a tension screw to fix any gap between the upper and lower ends of the rifle. The bottom line? The upper, including the mix of Picatinnny and Keymod rail, was more modern than the lower, which offered more traditional components, such as the plastic grip with single finger groove and the buttstock that was sans any padding. To change the shooters perspective and in effect reduce target area, we staggered the targets. These two hunting loads made perfect little holes and passed through their blocks without expanding. Compared to most everything else on the market, the 10.5-inch barrel (1:7 twist) pistol is an absolute Cadillac. The only spot on the Rattler is its trigger. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. After all, the eminently suppressible, hard-hitting .30-caliber was tailored for such gunscarbine and smaller that is. As a result, the American Tactical recently announced the company will offer two new bolt-action rifle systems from Black Creek Labs. HKs MP7 has never been available in any commercial form. This is the MCX Rattler. So was the grip and handguard. But thats not really new, either. Love this gun . Certainly, you get all the nimbleness and convenience of the configuration in 5.56. Wow just read the article on TTAG. We noticed that across all choices of ammunition the Saint produced the most velocity from each round. The CMMGs single-finger-groove plastic grip is almost extinct because the divider can be uncomfortable and never really seems to be in the right place. Springfield Armory of Illinois has been producing its own versions of the iconic M1A rifle for many years, but Springfield, like several other manufacturers, is known primarily as makers of handguns, or for that matter bolt-action rifles. Runs great. As to the brace, its a Tailhook Mod 2, an adjustable model that does an excellent job of settling in the gun. With the brace fully extended, the pistol is 23.5-inches in length. General guidelines dictate a 1:7 twist rate (there are also the odd 1:5 examples) for subsonic 300 Blackout and a 1:8 or slower for supersonic. There was another location for a QD sling from either side at the rear of the receiver just below where the buffer tube was attached. Dont be fooled, a 16-inch carbine in Blackout will outperform a 9-inch Blackout pistol. The barrel has a 1:8-inch twist and is Melonite coated. Ive also thought the same thing about 20-round magazines in a full-size AR. The ambidextrous controls worked quite well, and the safety lever on the off hand did not interfere with the shooter, be he right-handed or left-handed. Chris Johnson, FN Senior Product Manager, walks us through two new FN striker-fired pistols at SHOT Show 2023: the FN 510 Tactical, chambered in 10mm Auto, and the FN 545 Tactical, chambered in .45 ACP. Ive tested full-size rifles that werent any more accurate than that. MSRP: $700; palmettostatearmory.com, Good advice on the 300 blk pistols Anybody not owning a 300 blk should consider getting one Im 66 years young, big fan of 270,300 magnum but this 300 blk up to 150 yards is great . In addition, the fit and finish of the operational parts, most important the consistency of the trigger, makes this carbine worth the extra money. It's The only Sig I have left I won't give up because I like it that much . Our Team Said: When it comes to paying more for a rifle, or any firearm for that matter, its easy to check off a list of features to justify a higher price tag. Logical on the surface, given faster twist rates are generally required for heavier bullets, but there is debate on the matter. I own the Springfield Saint Victor. As our tests continued and the trigger broke in, we sometimes experienced only one stopping point before break. The fit between the top and bottom end of the CMMG Mk4T was admirably tight, yet the takedown pin was easy to operate. The new RIA 5.0 Sporting Pistol from Rock Island Armory features a patented RVS Recoil system that maximizes barrel mass and linear movement to give shooters super soft recoil. However, if youre shooting supersonic, its right on target. The Rattler is, essentially, as. I assumed shooting this gun would be like holding a concussion grenade in my teeth, but I was pleasantly surprised thanks to the Hate Brake. There was, however, a relief on each side of the handguard about 2.5 inches ahead of the receiver for attaching a quick detach (QD) button-style sling loop. Thats pretty much what youd expect from a V-MAX. Neither rifle is "top tier," so to speak. That saint victor is 400 above msrp though. All Rights Reserved. Non-Lethal Personal & Home Defense with Byrna, Range Tested: EAA Girsan Pistols & Shotguns, New for 2023: Christensen Arms Modern Hunting Rifle (MHR), New for 2023: All-American RIA 5.0 Sporting Pistol, New for 2023: FN Rush 9Ti Pistol Suppressor, New Big Bore Pistols for 2023: FN 510 Tactical and FN 545 Tactical, New for 2023: FN SCAR 15P Rifle Caliber Pistol, First Look: Taurus Raging Hunter 460 Magnum Revolver With 10.5-Inch Barrel, New-for-2023 Taurus Judge Executive Grade 410/.45 Colt Revolver, Smith & Wesson Equalizer and the Brand New M&P 5.7 Pistol. But thats what your 20-inch barreled baby is for, right? Sorry for long story .Your CZ Bren are pretty cool looking guns , I got the CZ Evo3 in OD green with SB 3 tactical folding brace on it . A staff member recently paid $2300 for a complete AR-15 carbine without regret. Relatively speaking, the 300 Blackout is better suited to shorter barreled guns; in fact, it was designed for exactly this task. Some of these extras include a top-end self-lubricating nickel-boron trigger, suppressor-ready heavy tungsten buffer, adjustable SB Tactical SBA3 brace and forward hand stop. With the shooter lined up on the center target, the object was to land as many hits as possible into the central A-zone of each paper target within a fixed 10-second time limit. The Springfield Saint AR-15 is a great entry-level AR-15 that is easy to use and customize. MCX-SPEAR . Sure, but thats not its sweet spot. Second Media Corp., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. Forged rather than cast aluminum is now the standard, and machining is more exact thanks to computer numerically controlled (CNC) automation. a little more then I've ever spent on a gun .So I called it a holy grail gun , which I had many other guns in front of that one . My wife said I'm going to buy me a new gun which one do you think the Blue or Orange . Also, unlike the HK MP7 and FN P90, you can actually buy a Springfield Armory PDW. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. The recoil was manageable with the hottest loads, and it was a pleasure to shoot with subsonics. The SIG Rattler is something special. As far as stabilization, it features the fairly standard SB Tactical SBA3 brace. One thing I would like to point out that seemingly even many owners of the Maxim Defense SCW and larger CQB braces and stocks dont seem to know is that you only have to use the button to collapse it. Granted you give up some ballistic performance, but gain a gat easy to transport and, yes, conceal (say in a backpack). The pistol is supplied with flip-up front and rear sights that sit relatively tall when folded and dont take up much rail space. The free-floated handguard offered Keymod machining on three sides, and the Picatinny top rail extended 11 inches from the receiver. Im sure some of the attention it will initially get will be negative from people who feel the same way. Furthermore, Sig has a much higher percentage of parts and weapons produced in house, which allows them to control quality much more closely, where as Springfield assembles and builds only a fraction of their product line, AFAIK. 300 AAC Blackout. The Black Hills 77-grain OTM rounds were next best, showing an average five-shot group measuring about 0.9 inch. More money for ammo, Fsatureless affords full capacity magazines, @bamaengineer may i ask why you would choose the Sig over the Saint? For a full answer to that, were going to have to explore exactly what a PDW is, but before I do that, lets look at the specs of this gun. "If I'd known I'd live this long I'd have taken better care of myself.". To extend it, just give the brace a vigorous yank. Even though the Victor has a 9-inch barrel (1:7 twist), the last feature is a nice piece of mind. The recoil was manageable with the hottest loads, and it was a pleasure to shoot with subsonics. Brand: Springfield. OK, so they want in sending rounds waaaay downrange. However, moving to the Barnes, Hornady and Lehigh Defense rounds changed things. 2023 Outdoor Sportsman Group. Building on the popularity of the company's Rattler in 300 BLK, SIG Sauer introduced a new model chambered in 5.56 NATO for 2019. . The rear-sight assembly (sometimes referred to as BUIS or backup iron sight) was a flip-up design. But there are a few key reasons why the .30-caliber is better suited for compact ARs. Comfortable to hold, the handguard offered the most versatility of our three rifles. The civilian version of the U.S. Army's new XM7 rifle. Now we've got Springfield's PDW in a similarly sized envelope, namely albeit chambered in 5.56 NATO. Thanks Bio. Each block of calibrated Clear Ballistics gel measured 4 by 4 by 17 inches. For more information on the SIG MCX Rattler, please visit SigSauer.com. So had to go home and think about it , while driving she asked which one I liked , i like them all but of course . I'm ashamed I even own one let alone was considering buying the Saint. I got the email also Bio. All remaining rounds produced 1-inch groups. The Judge has been promoted! Please keep us posted. Two apertures were supplied, but the larger aperture was too open, in our opinion. Instead of a GI-pattern charging handle, the PDW sports Springfields midsize charging handle, which is substantially larger than the GI model. Ruger's multi-role small frame autoloading rifle - Sear - combines AR-10 power with AR-15 Portability. . I just started a new thread under Sig Rifles to cover Vrtus Patrol. The Tread was $799.00 and the Saint was $849.00. With the Saint Edge series of ARs, you get nicely sculpted lower receivers machined from billet aluminum. To get started, click the link below to visit mymagnow.com and learn how to access your digital magazine. There is longer rifling in the barrel of the handgun currently on my hip than there is in this PDW. New Springfield Saint. The "Tread yellow marking" is just an mlok insert, mine didn't even come with one, but you can easily remove it. Thank you for that information, I really needed to know that. Get the 76th edition of the World's Greatest Gun Book. I'm a sucker for. As was the case with the M400 Classic, the front sight was not visible with the Tango4 optical scope mounted. In measuring trigger-pull weight, we arrived at an average of about 7.2 pounds. Springfield Armory Saint vs Sig Sauer M400 Tread . If we were to describe the bolt lock/release assembly as a seesaw, the typical lower end could be seen as being constructed without the seat. To carry the Rattler discreetly, I used Eberlestocks Combat Office Brief, which represents a typical messenger bag, as well as several other covert packs in my inventory, including some camera bags. One last more subtle upgrade was the trigger guard from Bravo Company that left more room for a gloved finger without necessarily having to unlatch the bottom panel. I got it for around 900 dollars a little over a year ago. The Eberlestock bag worked well with the gun sporting a suppressor and fully loaded, and removing the can and ammunition would allow the Rattler to slide into a small laptop case. It provides added backpressure for reliable cycling. The new-for-2023 lineup includes ultralight hunting stocks and a VGA 2-pound adjustable vertical-grip stock. He is a gun owner and avid reloader from Colorado. The Rattler runs a very dependable gas-piston system, which eliminates all the fouling typical in these short-barreled configurations. Eight major concealed carry insurance programs are now available to the millions of Americans who carry concealed. You have entered an incorrect email address! It's an entry level rifle that's pretty much designed to sell accessories. Im looking eventually for a Tread 400 (maybe this one?). So after that day it was on my dream list . This test was performed cold, one and done with no makeups. Eventually, ammo manufacturers answered the call, and now dozens offer 300 Blackout loads for a variety of uses. Jeff Bradley shows off the Modern Hunting Rifle (MHR) from Christensen Arms at SHOT Show 2023. Springfield has made some shitty moves in the past but they make an amazing AR.